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Old 10-14-2010, 11:25 PM
 
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Post Cookie Stuffing via Self Targeting

Hi,

Just so that I can fully understand, it is called cookie stuffing only if my landing page (which is the same as the target we are bidding on) drops a cookie on user, right?

If that's the case, whenever I decide to self-target, I need to make sure the landing page would not drop a cookie, so that I would not be accused in cookie stuffing, right?

If so, is the cookie dropping per merchant or per affiliate network? To say, are all CJ offers work by dropping cookies or each merchant in CJ works his own way to identify you as the affiliate who made the sale?

If it's per network, do you know any network that doesn't work on cookie dropping?


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-Yan
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:55 AM
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I am a little confused by your question, but will try and answer it. Cookie stuffing applies to Pay Per Sale products. So for example, Amazon.com. If you are an affiliate of Amazon and are popping a page that drops a cookie when Amazon.com is triggered as a target, then yes you are cookie stuffing.

Cookie stuffing is against TOS of pretty much every affiliate program out there so be careful. This is a black hat method that can get you banned, commissions reversed, or worse - sued.

As for CJ, yes all of their merchants work with cookies, so you cannot drop cookies on a popup. Also, CJ does not approve of CPV traffic so be careful there too.

I hope this helps answer your questions.
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:40 PM
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Default Cookie Stuffing

So, let me ask a question, is targeting the merchant's url on say Clickbank (pay per sale products) considered cookie stuffing? I thought that this was frowned upon, but I did not think that this was cookie stuffing since you are just trying to pop ahead of the original page. If they "x", your pop up out, and go to the original merchant page, you won't be credited with a sale will you?

Rich
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:33 AM
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It may not be cookie stuffing, but it's still theft if you target the product's page with intent to sell the same product.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:18 PM
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It's a moral judgement call if you want to venture into this area. Whatever you feel comfortable with, but be prepared to face the consequences too!
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:39 AM
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Targeting the merchants page with their own offer isn't technically cookie stuff - but it's still taking traffic from them.

There are affiliates that make their PPV money almost exclusively this way - it's up to you whether you want to venture down that road or not.

Personally I'd rather get all the traffic for the offer that I can find - not just bid on one target.
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Old 10-18-2010, 07:15 PM
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Default Targeting Merchant URL

Kevin, when you say theft, are you saying that this is theft in your opinion or this is theft in the legal sense where you are committing a criminal act? If it is theft in the moral sense, then I say leave everyone to their own devices, however, if it is theft in the legal sense, then that is a different story. I have seen a lot of offers where the landing pages look completely different than the merchant's main website or the offer promotes a special product of the merchant that is not shown on the main page of the merchant's website. In this case, what is wrong with popping that offer over the merchant's site? I would think that the merchant would not mind to have that offer shown since they are making money as a result of that specific that is being promoted when maybe their original web page may have not converted.

Rich
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:00 AM
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I'm pretty much referring to the type of targeting where a person tries to pop their own affiliate-tagged order or offer page over the top of the same order or offer page. That's theft. Offering a complementary or competing product, service, etc, isn't theft. Trying to be a competitive salesman with a better sales pitch(page) for the same product might not be theft.

If a person sneaks their order or offer page over the top of another marketer's order or offer page, they're essentially stealing the effort they've put forth to bring the customer to that page. Effort including money and time.

I'm sure it's theft in both a legal and moral sense, though it's very unlikely a person will get caught doing it or prosecuted/sued. At least currently. Still possible though, and in the future it's likely to become more difficult to "get away with".

I just try to encourage people to take the moral high road when I can.
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:33 PM
 
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"I am a little confused by your question, but will try and answer it. Cookie stuffing applies to Pay Per Sale products. So for example, Amazon.com. If you are an affiliate of Amazon and are popping a page that drops a cookie when Amazon.com is triggered as a target, then yes you are cookie stuffing."

...and are popping a page that drops a cookie... - The page I'm popping is the same amazon.com page I am targeting. Would amazon still consider this as cookie stuffing?

---

btw, guys, I know this moral thing is all chewed up, but just to give you a little thumb-rule I'm using when I have these moral dilemmas:
1. Is this form of advertising being done in the real world marketing?
2. Would doing this internet marketing method on the real world would be considered illegal/theft/immoral/unethical/etc?

So, if we take this self-targeting issue, let's take it for a real world example; let's take John Dow who wants to buy a can of soda, and as he goes to the room where the original vending machine is located, he also sees (your) identical vending machine that looks exactly like the first vending machine. He sees 2 identical vending machines standing near each other.

Is it theft? - I think not.
Is it immoral? Maybe.

At the end it's your decision what is moral or not, but I just want to open your eyes and show you that there is also a gray area.

To deepen these moral dilemmas, think more about real world marketing.
Is it moral to show you a television ad where you see a celebrity endorsing a product/service she/he has probably never used/will use? How different it is from a flog?

Another example is these fake online newspaper commercials. Fake newspaper commercials first appeared in real newspapers, where commercials were designed like a newspaper articles.
Is this internet marketing method immoral? Maybe.

Lots of old school advertising is coming from the real world to the internet.

As you can see there is a big area of gray regarding morality in various marketing methods. Make your own decision, but don't generalize (as oppose to saying "in my opinion") a marketing method as moral/immoral, and moreover, don't generalize it as legal/illegal without giving any statements from a CPA Network, Traffic Network, FTC, etc. that it is legal/illegal.


- Yan
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
I'm sure it's theft in both a legal and moral sense, though it's very unlikely a person will get caught doing it or prosecuted/sued. At least currently. Still possible though, and in the future it's likely to become more difficult to "get away with".

I just try to encourage people to take the moral high road when I can.
It isn't theft. It may or may not be morally right but it isn't theft which can be defined.

Definition of THEFT
1a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property

Or from wikipedia

Basic definition of theft
The basic definition of theft is defined in S.1(1) of the Act.

The Act states that

A person shall be guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

So from my reading personal property needs to have been taken and I don't think a possible commission counts as personal property
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