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Old 10-31-2010, 03:36 AM
 
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Default A bunch of random questions about scrubs

I get that scrubs for email and zip submits happen when an advertiser gets bad quality leads, but is this normally an issue with specific high volume lead generators, or would it effect everybody running that offer in a particular network? So for instance if we had CPA Network X, and affiliate A is promoting a free iPhone offer and generating 1000 leads a day, and his lead quality sucks so he gets scrubbed, all the meanwhile affiliate B might be doing 10-50 day but all high quality leads, would affiliate B get scrubbed at all? Or if affiliate B still faces scrubs will he get scrubbed at the same rate/percentage as affiliate A?

Also just a general scrub question: what kind of volume does one need to do on an offer in order to get scrubbed? Can low volume producers fly under the radar? Or are they susceptible to network or offer scrubs (if they happen), regardless of their lead quality?

All in all i'm just trying to understand how scrubbing works, and to see if there are any ways that I can avoid it? I guess in the end it is accomplished by generating high quality leads, or avoiding saturated/high converting offers that everyone and their mom is promoting, and generating bad leads at the same time. Any tips on generating high quality leads? Referring back to the above example with affiliate A and B, are there ever situations where an offer gets scrubbed even for affiliates who generate ALL quality leads, regardless of the number?

Also, is it the case that there are only certain types of offers that scrub? On some networks I see offers like the free iPad/iPhone come out with high epc's and conversion rates, and then drop like a rock over the next week or so. I take it these are the offers that are being scrubbed correct? Is there any way to identify offers that are LESS likely to scrub?

Thanks

Last edited by Diablo360; 10-31-2010 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 10-31-2010, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
I get that scrubs for email and zip submits happen when an advertiser gets bad quality leads, but is this normally an issue with specific high volume lead generators, or would it effect everybody running that offer in a particular network?
It's usually everyone running it. They're not going to make an exception for a high volume guy and lose money on it.

Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
So for instance if we had CPA Network X, and affiliate A is promoting a free iPhone offer and generating 1000 leads a day, and his lead quality sucks so he gets scrubbed, all the meanwhile affiliate B might be doing 10-50 day but all high quality leads, would affiliate B get scrubbed at all?
The one with the high quality wouldn't get scrubbed. B in this case.

Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
Or if affiliate B still faces scrubs will he get scrubbed at the same rate/percentage as affiliate A?
Although no one has ever revealed the exact numbers, I imagine it's case by case.

Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
Also just a general scrub question: what kind of volume does one need to do on an offer in order to get scrubbed?
I've found it's usually a time thing rather then lead volume. After the first 12 hours they know if they're going to scrub you or not.

Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
Can low volume producers fly under the radar? Or are they susceptible to network or offer scrubs (if they happen), regardless of their lead quality?
If it's low volume it just takes longer for them to figure out your quality, but eventually you will get scrubbed if it's low.

Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
All in all i'm just trying to understand how scrubbing works, and to see if there are any ways that I can avoid it?
Think of it as if you were running the email submit. How long would you take leads that are not converting from an affiliate? Not very long. You can't really avoid it and email and zip submits are not a long term method.

Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
I guess in the end it is accomplished by generating high quality leads, or avoiding saturated/high converting offers that everyone and their mom is promoting, and generating bad leads at the same time. Any tips on generating high quality leads?
Whether the person continues down the path of the offer or not is not controllable by you. The scrub loophole is there to protect the merchant only. You can't really say, "enter your email and do 9 more offers or else don't bother."

Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
Referring back to the above example with affiliate A and B, are there ever situations where an offer gets scrubbed even for affiliates who generate ALL quality leads, regardless of the number?
Hard to say but I would imagine no. If it's good stuff, they'll keep paying out.

Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
Also, is it the case that there are only certain types of offers that scrub? On some networks I see offers like the free iPad/iPhone come out with high epc's and conversion rates, and then drop like a rock over the next week or so. I take it these are the offers that are being scrubbed correct? Is there any way to identify offers that are LESS likely to scrub?

Thanks
All email and zips get scrubbed. If a network says they don't scrub, they're not fibbing because it's the merchant who scrubs not the network. Anything outside the email and zip submit world usually does not scrub you. EPC's from networks are never accurate and are not useful at all. The network can legally manipulate those numbers to make offers appear better then they really are. NEVER go by network epc's or if you do, take them with a grain of salt.

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Old 10-31-2010, 05:42 PM
 
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Wow thanks for the clarification on all those points. That helps a LOT!

So I understand that email/zip submits aren't a long term solution to ppv. My only goal at this point is to make some easy "lunch money" so that I can "properly" test an array of campaigns with higher offer payouts. I guess if I want to maximize my returns with email submits I should: find which offers are profitable on my selected traffic sources, then find matching offers on other networks and rotate them, correct? This seems like a short term (1 week max) strategy to sustaining high unusually high EPC's?

Also how hard can a merchant scrub? Will they scrub ALL of my leads? I don't expect high EPC's to be sustainable, but is it not true that if I am getting $.01 views and Massive volume, then all I need is an EPC of greater than $.01 to be profitable?
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Diablo360 View Post
Wow thanks for the clarification on all those points. That helps a LOT!

So I understand that email/zip submits aren't a long term solution to ppv. My only goal at this point is to make some easy "lunch money" so that I can "properly" test an array of campaigns with higher offer payouts. I guess if I want to maximize my returns with email submits I should: find which offers are profitable on my selected traffic sources, then find matching offers on other networks and rotate them, correct? This seems like a short term (1 week max) strategy to sustaining high unusually high EPC's?

Also how hard can a merchant scrub? Will they scrub ALL of my leads? I don't expect high EPC's to be sustainable, but is it not true that if I am getting $.01 views and Massive volume, then all I need is an EPC of greater than $.01 to be profitable?
Yes, it is true if you are getting a higher EPC than you are spending you are making money The question is if it is worth it. Would you spend $100 to make back $110?

I think you can use email subs longer term with strategies like lucas' Fan Club. I have some email submits I have been running for quite a while that never have gotten scrubbed.

You will know when the scrub happens if it happens, conversions will just drop. At that point, switch it out with another offer if possible or move on to the next one.
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:29 PM
 
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Ok thanks. One more question, if I get scrubbed will all of my conversions still show in CPV Lab? So if I see a discrepancy between network stats and what CPV Lab tells me then I've been scrubbed, correct?
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:46 PM
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No, you just won't see any conversions
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:15 PM
 
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ok got it, thanks!
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:39 AM
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Hey I'm curious about what qualifies as quality to the merchants running the zip/email submits. I hear terms like "backing out", etc. The offers seem to generally say "sign up for a certain number of offers on each of the following pages and you'll get a free gizmotron."

Is the merchant looking for people to follow through with the whole thing to get the free gizmo? Or, are they looking for people who just start to fill out the offers and then don't go through with the whole process to get the gizmo? Or are both of these acceptable to the merchants? I mean, do they make enough money to send out the gizmos to everyone who jumps through the hoops, or is the gizmo just there to entice them to "get started" in signing up for those offers?

Is "backing out" when they don't go all the way through to claim their gizmo, or is it when they stop just after entering their email/zip?

Are there some email submits which just want the email address? Seems uncommon, or I just haven't noticed any yet.

Knowing these criteria will help us understand what's going on, and perhaps help us figure out how to be better at generating good leads.

(am I allowed to mention stuff from ppc-coach here??) I recall over on ppc-coach a certain famous member ended up getting help from an aff manager to create two accounts on that network in order to run a submit offer with less "scrub percentage" on a semi-ongoing basis. If so, it means the merchant was just scrubbing by percentage after a certain volume per account. Is this a typical or common thing?
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:39 PM
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Yes you can mention stuff from PPC Coach here.



Backing out refers to where in the path the user drops off. Typically the merchant doesn't expect anyone to go through all the offers. In fact I've heard that one offer will put them into profits.
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